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	<title>Comments on: why John McCain will probably win&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/</link>
	<description>Public journal, travelogue, book reviews, and other stuff... (mostly written by Ryan)</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ryan2</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3622</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3622</guid>
		<description>Well, Josh, as I'm sure you suspect, I don't agree entirely with your thoughts.  First, despite my post-modernist understandings of some things, I am now a reformed post-modernist, positivist who actually believes there are certain things that are true and other things that are not.  So, when you say "your" truth, you are implying that there are multiple truths.  In the sense you mean it, sure, there are.  But in the context of whether or not Barack Obama respects the American Flag, there are not.  There is A TRUTH.  Not my truth.  Not your truth.  Not the truths of the people who responded to me.  There is simply "truth."  So, my first comment: This issue isn't one where we can debate the "truth".  There is "the truth" and "not the truth."  What the email contained that was sent to me was "not the truth."  I responded with the truth.

The second issue: people don't like this.  You're probably right.  Many people don't seem to respond positively when things they believe are challenged.  I used to be one of those people.  Today, I invite people to challenge my positions as I see no better way to improve my positions than to have them challenged.  If people can't handle this, I see that as their problem.  I put weight into the idea that you should "speak truth to power."  Rush Limbaugh has power; I'll speak truth to him and his followers.

Again, you're probably right that people see me as an "egotistical know-it-all."  That's probably true.  But it doesn't change the facts, which is what I responded with.  Also, you should keep in mind that someone sent Debi (they don't send them to me anymore) an email that was CC'd to dozens of people.  This was a forwarded email filled with lies.  The person who sent it was sending it to influence peoples' opinions.  I responded in order to give people another perspective (a.k.a. the truth).  Responding to everyone really isn't any different than the initial offense of sending an unrequested bulk email.  The initial sender thought he/she was doing a favor to the recipients.  I feel the same way.  My email may be more intrusive because I don't know those people, but my email also has the benefit of accuracy.

Finally, your last point: I don't defend John McCain nearly as much as Obama.  Well, this is both right and wrong.  I do defend Obama more, but that's because there are rumors about him.  Name a rumor about John McCain.  What is being said about John McCain that needs correcting?  Obama and the Democrats do not seem as likely (to me, I could be wrong) to introduce outright lies about their opposition.  The biggest rumor ever floated about John McCain was that he fathered an illegitimate child with a black woman.  Guess who started that rumor?  George W. Bush's campaign in 2000.  If you can find a rumor about McCain, I'll defend him.  My goal isn't to introduce bias; it's to give people accurate information.  

Let me give another example: You know I am critical of Mormonism.  I disagree with a lot when it comes to that religion.  But I am also quick to correct anyone who says something untrue about the religion.  If someone says Mormons are all polygamists, I'll quickly correct them.  There is a place for opinions, but opinions are not facts and should not be confused with them.

Finally, I send these bulk email rebuttals for all sorts of things.  The day after I responded to the Obama email, I received an email from a high school classmate telling me to sign this petition (http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/socialsecurity.asp).  No Obama, no McCain.  It was a political issue having to do with immigration.  I regularly tell people I have NO position on immigration because I don't know enough about it.  But I responded to that email (everyone on the list) giving them links to Snopes and telling them the email was basically worthless.  My point: I don't respond because I want to push my particular political agenda.  I respond to give people accurate information.  If you equate "accurate information" with "political agenda," you are failing to see an important distinction between the two.  Facts are facts and are not open to discussion.  Opinions can be formed of a fact, but an opinion cannot be a fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Josh, as I&#8217;m sure you suspect, I don&#8217;t agree entirely with your thoughts.  First, despite my post-modernist understandings of some things, I am now a reformed post-modernist, positivist who actually believes there are certain things that are true and other things that are not.  So, when you say &#8220;your&#8221; truth, you are implying that there are multiple truths.  In the sense you mean it, sure, there are.  But in the context of whether or not Barack Obama respects the American Flag, there are not.  There is A TRUTH.  Not my truth.  Not your truth.  Not the truths of the people who responded to me.  There is simply &#8220;truth.&#8221;  So, my first comment: This issue isn&#8217;t one where we can debate the &#8220;truth&#8221;.  There is &#8220;the truth&#8221; and &#8220;not the truth.&#8221;  What the email contained that was sent to me was &#8220;not the truth.&#8221;  I responded with the truth.</p>
<p>The second issue: people don&#8217;t like this.  You&#8217;re probably right.  Many people don&#8217;t seem to respond positively when things they believe are challenged.  I used to be one of those people.  Today, I invite people to challenge my positions as I see no better way to improve my positions than to have them challenged.  If people can&#8217;t handle this, I see that as their problem.  I put weight into the idea that you should &#8220;speak truth to power.&#8221;  Rush Limbaugh has power; I&#8217;ll speak truth to him and his followers.</p>
<p>Again, you&#8217;re probably right that people see me as an &#8220;egotistical know-it-all.&#8221;  That&#8217;s probably true.  But it doesn&#8217;t change the facts, which is what I responded with.  Also, you should keep in mind that someone sent Debi (they don&#8217;t send them to me anymore) an email that was CC&#8217;d to dozens of people.  This was a forwarded email filled with lies.  The person who sent it was sending it to influence peoples&#8217; opinions.  I responded in order to give people another perspective (a.k.a. the truth).  Responding to everyone really isn&#8217;t any different than the initial offense of sending an unrequested bulk email.  The initial sender thought he/she was doing a favor to the recipients.  I feel the same way.  My email may be more intrusive because I don&#8217;t know those people, but my email also has the benefit of accuracy.</p>
<p>Finally, your last point: I don&#8217;t defend John McCain nearly as much as Obama.  Well, this is both right and wrong.  I do defend Obama more, but that&#8217;s because there are rumors about him.  Name a rumor about John McCain.  What is being said about John McCain that needs correcting?  Obama and the Democrats do not seem as likely (to me, I could be wrong) to introduce outright lies about their opposition.  The biggest rumor ever floated about John McCain was that he fathered an illegitimate child with a black woman.  Guess who started that rumor?  George W. Bush&#8217;s campaign in 2000.  If you can find a rumor about McCain, I&#8217;ll defend him.  My goal isn&#8217;t to introduce bias; it&#8217;s to give people accurate information.  </p>
<p>Let me give another example: You know I am critical of Mormonism.  I disagree with a lot when it comes to that religion.  But I am also quick to correct anyone who says something untrue about the religion.  If someone says Mormons are all polygamists, I&#8217;ll quickly correct them.  There is a place for opinions, but opinions are not facts and should not be confused with them.</p>
<p>Finally, I send these bulk email rebuttals for all sorts of things.  The day after I responded to the Obama email, I received an email from a high school classmate telling me to sign this petition (http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/socialsecurity.asp).  No Obama, no McCain.  It was a political issue having to do with immigration.  I regularly tell people I have NO position on immigration because I don&#8217;t know enough about it.  But I responded to that email (everyone on the list) giving them links to Snopes and telling them the email was basically worthless.  My point: I don&#8217;t respond because I want to push my particular political agenda.  I respond to give people accurate information.  If you equate &#8220;accurate information&#8221; with &#8220;political agenda,&#8221; you are failing to see an important distinction between the two.  Facts are facts and are not open to discussion.  Opinions can be formed of a fact, but an opinion cannot be a fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3621</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3621</guid>
		<description>I also believe people should be informed and check their facts, but the problem is most people don't want to.  If you go around forcing YOUR truth on other people, they will resent and hate you for it.  At this point in the race, I believe most people already have their minds made up.  You pushing your facts down their throats isn't going to sway very many people.  I would be very careful sending out those kind of emails.  As Dean stated above, it would be very easy to come across as an egotistical know-it-all when you correct people who do not want to be corrected.  

And to be the devil's advocate here, I might change my tune if I saw you defending John McCain to the same extent you defend Obama.  Since you are only defending your chosen politician, (and his name is plastered all over your website) it is hard to believe you are unbiased.  (Granted I would be hard pressed to defend McCain, I think they are both crooked...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also believe people should be informed and check their facts, but the problem is most people don&#8217;t want to.  If you go around forcing YOUR truth on other people, they will resent and hate you for it.  At this point in the race, I believe most people already have their minds made up.  You pushing your facts down their throats isn&#8217;t going to sway very many people.  I would be very careful sending out those kind of emails.  As Dean stated above, it would be very easy to come across as an egotistical know-it-all when you correct people who do not want to be corrected.  </p>
<p>And to be the devil&#8217;s advocate here, I might change my tune if I saw you defending John McCain to the same extent you defend Obama.  Since you are only defending your chosen politician, (and his name is plastered all over your website) it is hard to believe you are unbiased.  (Granted I would be hard pressed to defend McCain, I think they are both crooked&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: ryan2</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3620</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3620</guid>
		<description>Hi Dean...  I'll send this to your email, to, but I thought you might want a reference on why people behave the way they do politically:
Brooks, Clem, Karen S. Cook, and Douglas S. Massey. 2006. â€œVoters Satisficing and Policymaking: Recent Directions in the Study of Electoral Politics.â€ Annual Review of Sociology 32:191-211.

I'll email the paper to you.  In summary, what they say is: voters are idiots - they use party affiliation, emotion, and short-term memory to make decisions.  Okay, "idiots" is my term, here are their words, "voters are better viewed as making do with their accumulated set of biases and habits and with the stimuli provided by the current environment when faced with the prospect of a national election or a major policy conflict."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dean&#8230;  I&#8217;ll send this to your email, to, but I thought you might want a reference on why people behave the way they do politically:<br />
Brooks, Clem, Karen S. Cook, and Douglas S. Massey. 2006. â€œVoters Satisficing and Policymaking: Recent Directions in the Study of Electoral Politics.â€ Annual Review of Sociology 32:191-211.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll email the paper to you.  In summary, what they say is: voters are idiots - they use party affiliation, emotion, and short-term memory to make decisions.  Okay, &#8220;idiots&#8221; is my term, here are their words, &#8220;voters are better viewed as making do with their accumulated set of biases and habits and with the stimuli provided by the current environment when faced with the prospect of a national election or a major policy conflict.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3619</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3619</guid>
		<description>Above should read: At worst, one worships _the_ wrong god</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Above should read: At worst, one worships _the_ wrong god</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3618</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3618</guid>
		<description>i had a remarkably similar experience when I attempted to debunk an email forward highlighting Obama and his "Muslim" background.  From those uninterested in facts, the basic response is "who cares?  Even if he's not, he might as well be one because I won't vote for him!"  

I just don't get the (ir)rationality behind this thinking.  Often I get criticized (by my own parents even) for being a "know-it-all" when really all I want are accurate facts.  For me, not having the proper facts invites risk.  Knowing the truth about events, people and phenomenon helps aleviate that risk.  I would think others would want to do likewise.

I mean, I feel my thinking is even a counter to Pascal's Wager, where even though the believer feels that their "risk" is less in the afterlife, if one examines the facts from an objective point of view, one finds that being duped by Pascal's Wager is actually the riskier endeavour.  At a basic level, at best one simply wastes one's time worshiping a god that doesn't exist.  At worst, one worships wrong god.

Anyway, long time no talk Ryan.  Give me a buzz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i had a remarkably similar experience when I attempted to debunk an email forward highlighting Obama and his &#8220;Muslim&#8221; background.  From those uninterested in facts, the basic response is &#8220;who cares?  Even if he&#8217;s not, he might as well be one because I won&#8217;t vote for him!&#8221;  </p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t get the (ir)rationality behind this thinking.  Often I get criticized (by my own parents even) for being a &#8220;know-it-all&#8221; when really all I want are accurate facts.  For me, not having the proper facts invites risk.  Knowing the truth about events, people and phenomenon helps aleviate that risk.  I would think others would want to do likewise.</p>
<p>I mean, I feel my thinking is even a counter to Pascal&#8217;s Wager, where even though the believer feels that their &#8220;risk&#8221; is less in the afterlife, if one examines the facts from an objective point of view, one finds that being duped by Pascal&#8217;s Wager is actually the riskier endeavour.  At a basic level, at best one simply wastes one&#8217;s time worshiping a god that doesn&#8217;t exist.  At worst, one worships wrong god.</p>
<p>Anyway, long time no talk Ryan.  Give me a buzz.</p>
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		<title>By: B-Rad</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3617</link>
		<dc:creator>B-Rad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3617</guid>
		<description>Good for you to stand up to the BS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good for you to stand up to the BS!</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/07/02/why-john-mccain-will-probably-win/#comment-3616</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryananddebi.com/?p=1376#comment-3616</guid>
		<description>I appreciate that you tried to inform people of the misinformation out there (especially in ridiculous forwards) and I am shocked that people responded so caustically.  On my part, thank you for the links  As someone that doesn't have a lot of time to be checking the news I appreciate being informed with correct, legitimate information.  So, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate that you tried to inform people of the misinformation out there (especially in ridiculous forwards) and I am shocked that people responded so caustically.  On my part, thank you for the links  As someone that doesn&#8217;t have a lot of time to be checking the news I appreciate being informed with correct, legitimate information.  So, thanks!</p>
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